DAVE LIEBMAN INTERVIEW MARCH 2020

How did you come to be recording for ECM Records?

Manfred Eicher came up to me after a performance at the Berlin Jazz Festival jazz with Elvin Jones, whose group I was a member of. Manfred expressed interest in recording. Nothing directly happened then, but then a year later I was again at the Festival, this time with Miles Davis. We spoke a little concerning sidemen, the music itself and so on. By that time I was already thinking about forming my own group after being with Miles for a year and a half. The truth is I did have the music ready and the personnel. So that’s how the Lookout Farm record became a reality.

How important was the actual Lookout Farm, the location itself to the story of this album?

There’s a painter who’s still active and now in his ‘80s named Eugene Gregan. Richie Beirach and I spent a lot of time with him, in the Catskill Mountains where he lived. We learned a lot just being around him and his wife, Beverly. He is a fantastic painter and craftsman in all ways. He opened up a couple of doors about the artistic process; what it is to be an artist; things like that. Not necessarily about music, but in general. So, I decided to make this record as a homage celebrating my time with a true master.

Can you tell me a bit about the compositional process and the balance with improvisation on this record?

The four compositions that are on that recording represent four different musical directions that I was interested in. Each song had a different feel and story to tell. The late ‘6os and early ‘70s was when eclecticism as a style became valid. If there’s anything about the record that’s obvious, it’s that it switches styles from tune to tune. There’s Pablo’s Story, which is kind of a Latin-based rhythmic thing. MD, which stands for Miles Davis, had a slow part followed by a rock vamp because that’s what I was doing with Miles a little bit during this On The Corner stage. The third song used what we call an odd or uneven meter vamp tune called Sam’s Float, and finally of course there’s Lookout Farm, which was a Coltrane-ish head and jazz burn. These four compositions represent what I was interested in musically at that time and felt they would be a good representation of my influences for my first major recording as a leader. You have to be very clever when you do your first recording as a leader because you are setting the table for the next several decades.

SS Can you say something about putting the group together, what you were looking for in the players you chose?

Well, I was using for musicians that I had a relationship with already. We were quite involved in the loft scene at that time. These folks who came up there where we would play, hang out and talk about music. Maybe a dozen musicians were involved with that scene at the time. I figured that if I’m going to do my first recording on a major label, I should choose people who I’m comfortable with already. The next record Drum Ode was similar. In that case I added a couple of percussionists specifically for the Drum Ode recording. Basically I was recoding with my friends.

SS The album was recorded in two days at Generation Sound. Were you familiar with that studio?

I think it was only one day we had to record. (Have to check that.) I only knew Generation as a professional studio that Manfred wanted to use. I had not spent that much time in the studio in general at that point.

SS Was Manfred Eicher present during the recording?

Yes, he was. This was unusual for him to come from Germany where he liked to record for both recordings. He was basically at the beginning of ECM, but he of course had strong views on things… some of it useful and some not so agreeable. The bottom line is Lookout Farm is still selling years later!!

I was listening to the recently released live Lookout Farm that’s just come out recently. What, for you, were the main differences between the studio album and the live?

As I mentioned earlier, I had not been in the studio many times by 1973 /1974. The recording studio is a whole story in itself. The things you have to think about like posterity are magnified…the  length of tunes and choice of materials, blah, blah, blah. There’s a lot of considerations which I was just beginning to learn about. This Hamburg recording from a club was the opposite meaning no limitations while capturing true spontaneity without having too much concern about recording-type matters. This was the way we played live with a lot of intensity and fire. And again very eclectically. One tune could be a Coltrane-type…Your Lady for example. The next tune could be an odd metered vamp tune like Sam’s Float…followed by a kind of 20th century classical music introduction with Richie and so on. The fact is the 1975 CD out now is really a great example of me and my cohorts in our earliest days.

SS where does the album sit for you in your very long discography? How do you assess it now?

One thing is that those four tunes represent four kinds of music, which I’m still doing years later in a way. Another point is that I have 500 plus recordings, nearly half as leader/co-leader. The studio is another species and I love it. I did not love it at that time. I was very nervous. I just keep thinking, people in Alaska are gonna listen to me and make a judgment. That’s how I was at that time. I was 26-27 years old. The idea that something was for posterity scared me. So Lookout Farm was a big step for my evolution as a recording artist, technically if not musically.

SS Were there many takes through the recording session?

I don’t remember. But in general, as you probably know, jazz is not many more takes than two, maybe three. It’s not pop music which often has a formula that musicians are trying to capture while in jazz the product happens right in front of you, in the moment. So, usually after two takes, you’ve kind of done your job already.  I mean, it can happen that you do four or five takes,  particularly the melody but remember in those days it was tape, real tape. We could edit but it wasn’t in any way as easy as it is now. So, with those considerations I (and Eicher) probably said something like: “That feels good…let’s move on.” That’s probably that’s what I did.

SS Earlier you mentioned something about Manfred’s interventions good and bad. Can you say anything more about that?

Well, he’s a little bit of a scientist, a little tight in personality. We had a little problem with Drum Ode. I had eight drummers/percussionists…something like that. The atmosphere was quite, jubilant to say the least And he was a little out of his game. I said to him half-way through the date that this is jazz in New York City. These guys are gonna feel “GOOD” no matter what. No big deal but basically it ended my relationship with Eicher. I recorded one more time with ECM on Steve Swallow’s record Home. I have great respect for his work. But his reputation for being a bit dictatorial was well known.

SS How would you describe Richie Beirach’s qualities?

He is a complete expert on 20th century classical music as well as the masters…..Beethoven, Brahms and all that. Specifically, he is particularly well-versed in the harmony of the 20^th century, which definitely changed the face of classical music. Richie and I fit like hand and glove with the ability to play these harmonies and incorporate them into a jazz setting. We had and still have a very good personal relationship spending a lot of time together discussing music, and listening a lot to Coltrane, Miles, Bill Evans, etc. As well we listened a lot to ourselves……self-monitoring. In those days we learned by the “street” using trial and error. We had to do it ourselves…..Richie was a big partner of mine in that respect.

SS The album came out at a time of huge changes in jazz and at the height of the jazz rock movement with the rise of bands such as Mahavishnu Orchestra, Return To Forever, and so on. What was your view of that development? Was it something you felt connected to in any way?

That was the music of the time. When you’re young, you usually jump on something that’s current and hopefully can be accepted by the public. Jazz rock or fusion, as it’s also called, was a stage of development for us and the musicians you named among many. For a few years that music was the main dish at the meal. You were gonna play something with electric bass….it was going to have a vamp……maybe more of a rock feel and it was probably going to be fast and loud. There were certain parameters that separated it from pure jazz, but there were jazz elements present, especially harmonically when the musicians wanted to. Lookout Farm was a member of that ‘70s tribe. But maybe because of the big Coltrane influence on me, Lookout Farm was a bit more jazz-based than the other groups.

SS at this point the line deteriorates so badly DL is inaudible and the interview comes to an end.